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June 25, 2003
Adventist Encounter
It happened yesterday. There I was sitting in Taco Bell, minding my own business, eating a chicken enchilada bowl and reading my Bible. These two girls walk in (about high school age), they notice what I’m reading, and they immediately come over to introduce themselves.
They started out with, “We noticed what you are reading, and we think that’s really cool. Do you have a religious background?” I told them yes, and they explained to me that they are Seventh-day Adventists. Then they asked if they could sit down and have lunch with me. I thought to myself, what the heck, so they ordered their food and sat down.
The two girls are from California, where they attend some kind of Adventist academy, and they’re in Utah to sell books to raise money for their school. They said they’ll be here for three weeks and then they are going somewhere else for three more weeks. Half of the things they said and the way they acted reminded me of when I was a missionary. They were talking about what a character building experience it has been for them so far.
They shared a little bit of their beliefs and invited me to church with them on Saturday. They wanted to sell some of their books to me, but when I informed them of my current financial situation they offered to give me the books. They said they could pay for them with donations from other people.
Adventists claim to be evangelical Christians, but a few of their beliefs clearly set them apart. For one, they have church on Saturdays, so I asked them what they thought about other Christians who meet on Sundays. They told me they don’t condemn other churches, but they feel it is more in keeping with God’s word to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. Another thing they brought up was that they don’t eat pork and certain other kinds of meat. They don’t view diet as a factor in Salvation (or so they claimed in our conversation) and they don’t condemn others for eating meat. In fact, one of the girls said she is not a vegetarian, but she is still a member in good standing. I think they toned down this teaching quite a bit, though.
I remember talking to Seventh-day Adventists on my mission, and I used to know more about them, so when I got home I immediately looked them up on the Internet. Their website, adventist.org is pretty plain and does not publish a lot of doctrine. I found the following on their “Fundamental Beliefs” page: “Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures.” Correct me if I’m wrong, but all of the unclean foods they’re talking about were identified in the Old Testament.
It seems strange to me that a group of Christians would want to go back to the strict laws of Judaism and try to make it compatible with Christianity. It seems to me that scriptures like 1 Corinthians 10:25-27 are quite clear:
25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience’ sake;
26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains.
27 If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience’ sake.
And see Colossians 2:13-17:
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—
17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Don’t get me wrong here. I agree that healthy eating is important, and that it is good to meet together as a body of Christ regularly to fellowship and worship Him. But in light of these verses, I’m not sure how they can say that Christians are under any obligation to eat certain foods or honor a specific Sabbath day.
Here’s the clincher: The Adventist movement came out of the Millerite movement, so named because it was led by William Miller. Miller had prophesied that Jesus would return in 1844 (the Bible is clear in teaching that no man knows the day or the hour of Christ’s return, but that we should always be watchful; see Matthew 25:13, Revelation 3:3). Christ’s return did not happen as predicted. Later, Ellen G. White declared herself to be a prohpet and claimed that Miller was right about the time, but wrong about the event. She claimed that in 1844 the heavenly sanctuary had been cleansed—whatever that means. Anyway, she continued to teach many of the false teachings of William Miller, while adding many of her own.
Anyway, enough doctrine for one day. I’ve decided not to go to church with them, but we had a fun discussion and I will probably read the literature they provided me with. I appreciated their kindness toward me and I admire them for taking time out of their summer to do something they feel strongly about. It’s good to see young people willing to do that.
Posted by Joey at June 25, 2003 01:43 AM
Comments
That sounds like a great experience. I would have loved to be there!
It looks like you have them nailed with those verses. I tend to think that most religious disagreements can't be settled with the bible; the bible brings them up in the first place whenever it seemingly contradicts itself. However, in this casem the verses you quoted seem as clear as anything. What would an Adventist say to them, I wonder?
I think the only way "out" of this one (for them) is to have modern revelation that nullifies those verses. If they have such revelation (you indicate they've followed a couple modern prophets), they certainly aren't mainstream Christians--are they? It would mean they follow modern prophets over biblical writings, a practice that is NOT mainstream Christian.
Posted by: steve at June 28, 2003 07:36 AM
Hi :) I'm an adventist myself. I'd like to see if I can help point out any of the questions you were wondering about.
1) We get the Saturday from the 4th of the 10 commandments. If you read the full version (Many have actually been shortened believe it or not) It speaks of honoring the seventh day as the sabbath. And, we know Saturday is the 7th day as time has been tracked through history, which is why we have Saturday as the last day of the week on the calaendars. Also, Catholics, recorded in history, believe it or not actually changed that day themselves. But we believe in the day God made, the Saturday.
2) Unclean and clean meats are there to help us in our health. Its not there to help us to get closer to God, it is there for our daily health. Although it would probably be best we not eat meat, if we do eat meat it is a guideline for our health.
I hope that helps :)
Posted by: Sarah at February 27, 2004 01:17 AM
Thanks for stopping by, Sarah. I appreciate you trying to help me understand your faith. I do know a little about God’s historic dealings with man and I understand that Saturday was always the Sabbath. I don’t call Sunday the Sabbath, because I don’t think it is. You haven’t addressed the point I made with Colossians 2:13-17.
All the sabbath days and festivals led up to a fulfillment in Christ, and now that we’ve been justified in Christ through His sacrifice, we shouldn’t let anyone judge us with respect to these things. In effect he’s saying we can (and should) honor God any day we choose. What’s more, we should be honoring God every day of the week!
I have no problem with your services taking place on Saturday. I don’t think there’s anything inherently special about Sunday. If a church met on Wednesday it would be perfectly fine. I just don’t understand when you try to convince others that Saturday is the day we must honor. You are doing exactly what Paul says not to let other people do — judging me with respect to a sabbath.
I don’t know enough about your church to know how pushy you are about these matters. It sounds as if you are agreeable and permissive enough that you would still call me a Christian even though I don’t go to church on Saturday. However, I sense a sort of elitism in your church that is directly associated with unspoken condemnation of Christians around you who don’t honor Saturday. I have not researched your doctrines, but I have heard stuff about your church being the "remnant" — the last group of righteous people mentioned in Revelation and in other scriptures. Forgive me for being frank, but I think that’s a dangerous thing to assume about yourselves when God says we are all sinners.
Posted by: Joey at February 27, 2004 03:15 AM
Im not really an adventist but i was brought up by my mother who's parents where adventist i dont eat pork and find it rather disgusting. but my main question was why is it that you should not eat pork i understand that it is an un-clean meat but does it say some where in the bible that the meat is not good for you??
Posted by: Krystal at May 3, 2004 01:27 AM